Radical Women: Saghar Setareh
An interview with the author and a review of her new book Pomegranates & Artichokes
I am late with this, but I have always believed it is better late than never. Life seems to get in the way, but I am here now and so happy to write about Saghar Setareh's first amazing cookbook, Pomegranates & Artichokes, which guides readers through her life in Iran, Italy, and what she calls 'In-between.'
I had been dying to get my hands on her book for over a year after she told me about it at my annual Carciofo Day celebration in Lanuvio. Like many, I had assumed she was writing an Iranian cookbook, and when she said it was and more, I was intrigued. It was fun to be along for the journey on social media and finally for its European and UK release in May. She had the release party back at The Hoxton here in Rome, so it was an absolute joy to celebrate with her and hear what she had to say. This book has been made with passion and love with the help and collaboration of many women in her life that helped her with recipes and stories. And while the recipes are delicious and very well written, and easy to follow, and the photos are stunning, this is beyond a cookbook. It reads like a hybrid memoir-cookbook-food atlas. Each recipe is well researched, and through reading, we learn about Saghar's life through flavor, history, geography, how geopolitics affects food culture, and what flavors or techniques connect us across cultures. I've been mostly cooking from the “in-between” section of the book because I live in the Castelli Romani, and most of the ingredients don't require me to come into Rome to go to an international store or market, and because the Levant is my favorite kitchen in the world. Each section has a detailed pantry list to help the reader get started, and I love the suggested menus at the end. This is the type of cookbook I love.
One that I want to escape into from cover to cover, learning about the author's life and the stories behind the recipes. The photos are stunning, almost as if Caravaggio were nudging her along. Her journey into Italian food culture brought her closer to her roots and the cultures that influenced her throughout her life. I love that food is a connection. I have often found myself comparing Iranian food to Georgian food. There are so regionally close, and I have a lot more experience with Georgian cuisine than Iranian cuisine, so it feels so natural to want to do a deep dive into the history of a Georgian dish after reading about and cooking one of the dishes that are similar from this book. As a neurodiverse person, this fills my brain with dopamine, the rabbit hole one can enter when researching food. I always want to know what the roots are, and it seems this is something that also drives Ms. Setareh, so I feel that this book will be in my collection for decades to come because it is so diverse and dense with information, yet it flows like poetry, and it is pleasing to look at.
Saghar and I caught up through a video chat a few weeks ago for an interview I planned to publish for her United States book release, but cats and coughs got in the way. At her book launch party in Rome, she talked about issues I have never had to think about; for example, when a (white) anglophone comes to Italy and writes about food in Italy, she is never questioned about her authority as an Italian food expert. But when a non-white immigrant writes about food, she is expected to write about the food of her home country, and that's it. A woman who lives in Italy, speaks the language and understands food should not be limited to writing about her own culture. Anyone who truly loves food will be transformed and transfixed by the food of their adopted country. Nobody wants to talk about how racism plays such a part in the cookbook publishing world, but it is there, just like in every industry. We know this, and yet it remains unmentionable. During the pandemic, a very well know food writer in Rome was called out for virtue signaling on social media about Black Lives Matter, but when it came down to her co-author, she and her publisher threw her under the bus. It made me think about all the fantastic cookbooks that aren't written by incredible women simply due to their place of birth or race. There is so much depth in this book about the immigrant experience that is from a point of view white women don't even have to think about. I adore women who dare to break through and succeed while doing so. So, this book isn't just a cookbook. It is memories, stories, and joy from a woman I have long been following. It's a triumph.
At the book launch, you talked about being boxed in as an Iranian and food writer. And you obviously didn't want that and how much harder it is for you as a woman of color to write about Italian food. I'd be interested in expanding on that.
Yes, this is, of course, a little bit about the history of my career as a writer because when I was blogging, and I was categorized as a food blogger, people expected me to do everything Iranian just because I'm Iranian, even though, I live in Italy. But I had noticed that people from other parts of the world, primarily white people, coming from English-speaking parts of the world, as soon as they landed in Italy, they somehow became an authority to write about Italian food, in particular regions of Italy which can also be quite hard to learn about, but you know, you get there. You may even have some cooking experience; just the fact that you are there gives you authority, but this is not the case for everyone. You don't have to do anything, but if you're a white woman, you can just start. I have noticed that. Not to say that the work that these people have done is without any value. I don't want to say that, of course.
On the other hand, when I tried to sit next to the gatekeepers of this world, they were like, oh, no, let's do something Iranian here. And there were a couple of publishing offers that they wanted. Little Iranian cookbooks. There isn't anything wrong with that per se, but it simply wasn't the book I wanted to write.
So going back to the book you wanted to write, Can you talk to me about how you came to the concept of writing a book that connects you to your homeland, where you are today, and everything in between?
Quite early on, I think since 2009, the idea of migration and going back home and where is home to immigrant people has been on my mind, and one of the things that started this idea for me was that on my first return to Iran after about two years, by pure chance, I took a book that I had left in my library that I had never read. It was a gift from someone to me, and it was called Ignorance by Milan Kundera. So for those who don't know the book, it's about two emigrants from the Czech Republic, one of them lives in Sweden, the other in Paris, who go back home and have this epic journey. Talking about all this, it's an amazing book and everything else that I have done in my life since then has been influenced by that book. And then, a couple of years after this, I did my first thesis studying graphic design called "The Tale of Two Cities. " It was about Rome and Tehran. As the years passed, I observed this food thing and photography and did my master's thesis. I created a prototype cookbook with all the design and everything, and I actually considered this very lovely and it looks like an actual cookbook, but it didn't have any content. When I finally got to the point after a couple of years of being in the food world and being online and hoping that, you know, I would get a publication deal, and a couple of them arrived, but they were those books that I didn't want to write. There was one that was very nice, but it was from a very, very tiny publisher, and they didn't have the budget to do the book I wanted. There was a moment I thought okay, so I need to do this on my own. I needed to write a proposal and learned a lot about it. If I'm quite honest. I prayed on it, and it came to me. It was a Christian mystical experience.
At the book launch, I got really excited because you started talking about all these women in your life along the way that you were not even just working with but they shared their food with you. And they are in your book now. I would like to know if you could expand on how important women are in your life to come to this point of being able to publish a book.
Oh, you know, except for one or two exceptions, everyone who lifted me on their shoulders and helped me get here was a woman. These are friends, people who helped me with research, people who gave me recipes, and then, my whole publishing team; they're all amazing women and friends. Friends who have helped all along the way. I've been getting a lot of support and helping hands, and I'm very blessed. And it's all women, plus a couple of male friends, but it's incredible. It's amazing the way women support each other on this.
Do you think there's a difference between the support you get from women of color and white women?
Absolutely. Yes. Because a lot of the things that I have to explain to white women, I don't have to explain to women of color. They know what I'm talking about. When they see you have a little platform or a place to talk about this, they understand we need to support each other in that space because few of us do. So women of color, especially the women from "in-between" have been amazing, my Palestinian and Syrian friends and Turkish friends. They've been really amazing. And also, my Iranian friends, especially those in the world of publication, or, for example, my American editor. My American publishing house is Interlink Books which is sponsoring the American edition. It's a small independent publishing house. It's a family business of a Palestinian American family. And they have excellent books. And, of course, many of their books, especially their cookbooks, are about the Middle East and the stories of that area. My editor is called Leila, who was one of the daughters of the family. Through her, I knew I didn't have to explain some of the things because she knew and she recognized.
One of my favorite cookbook authors is Olia Hercules. She's a great writer. She does great things. I love the way she writes about food because she knows food, but she writes stories as well. What are some of the women cookbook authors that have inspired you through this process? And which cookbooks do you tend to come back to repeatedly?
I think those are two very different questions, you know.
I'm a very lazy person to get inspired. Perhaps I cook some of those things or never cook them, but they stay on my mind. Or I could read them, and I enjoy them. I read cookbooks; I have a lot of cookbooks. I cook very little, especially now; I don't cook anything for myself at all. But that's a whole other story. So yes, of course, Olia Hercules is amazing. I have all of her books, and I just love how she talks about food in general and tells stories. I read her; I don't necessarily cook all of her dishes. Not at all, but I love reading her. And then there is another writer, Caroline Eden. She's an incredible writer. And I'm very blessed to have her quote on the cover of Pomegranates & Artichokes
Caroline's writing is gorgeous; I love how she writes, especially about travel and food. I love Diana Henry, primarily when she writes about travel and has a way of talking about it that nobody else has. I love Rachel Roddy, of course. There are quite a few. I love the arguments that Yasmin Khan puts into her cookbooks, and I love the way she talks about very political issues and her cookbooks. Of course, I love Claudia Roden's food writing. She has my book now. I love that. That's one thing.
I do not necessarily go back to these cookbooks. For example, I use a couple of baking cookbooks whenever I need them because I usually don't need recipes to cook. But I do for baking. And also some I use as sources to go back to. And sometimes, I need inspiration.
Do you think your book will help raise visibility for Iranian women, women, and the movement for freedom in Iran?
That's a very difficult question, because I hope so. Of course, I hope so. But I finished writing the book way before all of these things started. I would love to talk about the movement of the women of Iran and the woman-life-freedom solution in Iran. But at the same time, I'm also scared because I don't want it to feel like I'm using movement to push my book. To be honest, I don't know how to handle this. It's a little bit tricky,
everything was finished by the 11th of March last year.
Go buy her book and follow Saghar on Instagram
I had planned to post a video from her book launch, but with my Italian countryside internet, I don’t have the bandwidth to do so.
Thank you so much for this heartfelt conversation